If you have been following the artist formerly known as Kanye West whose new name is now YE then you will know that he is not happy at all with the Gap. His lawyer explains why in this spectacular interview that I had the honor of recently doing in New York. Mr. Nicholas Gravante is a powerhouse lawyer that you do not want to mess with. He knows his stuff and he acts in integrity along with it! Please take a moment to watch this amazing interview. I think I may have overdone it with the amount of times I said “Wow” during this conversation but when you watch it you will know why! (I will restrain myself better next time).
This interview is one of the first of many where I will be asking geniuses like Mr. Gravante to share with us how he uses his genius traits to be so successful in his life! We all have 24 traits of genius (see the link below) and the more we use them the better our lives can be! Mr. Gravante definitely operates in all of his! Click to watch the video, below you will find the transcript if you would like to read along! Do not forget to like and subscribe!
About Genius
Currently, I am working on a special project with Bob Duggan the founder of Genius Inc. For many years Mr. Duggan has been passionate about helping others to understand how to operate in their personal genius traits. His commitment to this movement has been so inspiring to me that I wanted to interview powerful successful leaders and businessmen and women to help us understand how they have used these traits to achieve their own personal goals in life.
My nonprofit The Stacy Francis Music Arts and Education Foundation has fed over 200k meals. Much of these meals are fed to children in lower income areas who cannot afford food. These food incentive schools are there to get the children interested in learning. I have a true belief that a hungry child cannot learn. So we start there and move up the line to educating them and part of this journey includes helping them spiritually. The derivation of the word Genius is SPIRIT! Its innate in all of us.
You can learn more about YOUR 24 traits of Genius here at www.ageniusworld.com
This is the transcription of the Interview:
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:16:22
Stacy Francis
Hi, everybody. I’m so happy to be here in New York City with the amazing attorney, Nicholas Gravante, right now doing a series on traits of genius. We all have 24 traits of genius that some of us operate in and some of us don’t. I was with a little boy who said, I’m not a genius. I’m not a genius.
00:00:16:22 – 00:00:31:29
Stacy Francis
And in 5 minutes, I proved to him that he actually was because he was operating on some of the traits of genius that he didn’t even realize. So I’m going to have some questions for Mr. Gravante today about how he operates in those traits and what gives him the courage to operate traits, those traits. So thank you for having me here today.
00:00:31:29 – 00:00:32:25
Stacy Francis
I’m so happy to be here.
00:00:33:08 – 00:00:36:15
Mr Gravante
And thank you for interviewing me. I appreciate the opportunity.
00:00:36:20 – 00:00:53:05
Stacy Francis
Excellent. Thank you. So the first question is, right now, you’ve been working with a client that some would say is quite controversial because of his connections to former President Trump. And a lot of people just saying that name is sort of like, oh, you know, and you don’t seem to have any back off when it comes to him.
00:00:53:05 – 00:01:12:00
Stacy Francis
So you’re operating in genius trait number two, which is courage. How do you operate so well in genius trait number two, with regard to this scenario and other clients you have we’ll get to that later mean it takes courage to to do these things and things that others consider impossible so what is your secret to operating courage?
00:01:12:15 – 00:01:36:16
Mr Gravante
They say, I think in the first instance you’re referring to one of my clients who has recently been in the news lately, who is the former chief financial officer for the Trump Organization. That’s right. A wonderful man who, unfortunately, because of his, you know, 50 years of dedication and loyalty to his boss and to his his employer found himself in a very difficult situation.
00:01:37:02 – 00:02:01:08
Mr Gravante
And there is no doubt that walking into the courthouse with him resulted in my being subjected to mobs of people who were yelling obscenities at. Yes, really at me also. Yes. The fact that I was representing them. But, you know, I take my obligations as a lawyer very seriously and he is my client. I mean, he is an individual.
00:02:02:01 – 00:02:25:05
Mr Gravante
He I was not representing former President Trump. I was not representing the Trump organization. I was representing an individual who is the chief financial officer. And my duties are to him and solely to him. So his affiliations, regardless of other people, are biggest fans of Donald Trump or people who detest Donald Trump. But yeah, no position on that politically, right?
00:02:25:07 – 00:02:48:17
Mr Gravante
I’m a lawyer. Yes, I for my take on a client, I want to take on a client. That is an interesting point. That presents an interesting case. Yes. Interesting legal challenge. Yes. And I don’t really worry about, you know, political affiliations. I don’t worry about whether people are going to be upset at me for taking on a representation, because of my clients affiliation.
00:02:48:19 – 00:03:09:22
Mr Gravante
Wow. I look to pick and choose among the cases that I’m offered for the most interesting cases, the most interesting matters. And I don’t let the fact that people might criticize me and I have had friends criticize me. You have? Oh, absolutely. I’ve had friends at my at my club, friends from law school, friends from all over the place saying, how can you represent that man?
00:03:09:23 – 00:03:34:19
Mr Gravante
Right. You know, given that he’s he’s worked for the Trump organization. Right. Some years. Wow. Because he’s my client. Wow. Cause I don’t pick clients based on politics for political reasons or any other reason like them because of the challenge representing them legally. And I’ve done that throughout my career. I mean, as a matter of fact, I represented Hunter Biden 15 years ago.
00:03:34:20 – 00:03:35:20
Mr Gravante
You did? I did.
00:03:35:25 – 00:03:36:23
Stacy Francis
Wow.
00:03:36:23 – 00:04:00:17
Mr Gravante
So the case I represented Hunter Biden and President Biden’s brother, James Biden. Wow. Civil case in New York County. Wow. We’re sued for doing something which really lacked on merit. I mean, I had thrown out of court, but I do not, you know, pick clients based on whether they are Democrats or Republicans. Any other reason? Yes. Clients that are interesting.
00:04:00:17 – 00:04:19:04
Stacy Francis
Well, it’s interesting you say that, because as a singer, I sort of run into the same things. I was introduced to President Trump to sing the anthem for him. And someone wrote to me and said, oh, why would you sing for him? And I said, Look, I sang for Hillary Clinton’s Democratic National Convention. I’ll sing for the couple.
00:04:19:04 – 00:04:37:21
Stacy Francis
I just go sing, you know. And so the person said, Well, it’s like singing for Putin. And I was like, I think we’re going a little too far. But some people, they do. And it’s just like, you have to operate in courage, you have to operate in that integrity. You just say, Look, I’m doing my job. I go where, you know, I’m asked to go and I represent myself, you know, like for what I do professionally.
00:04:37:21 – 00:04:56:17
Stacy Francis
I’m not going to get caught up in what other people think. It’s just it’s just important to operate in that, because I have to sleep with myself and I, you know, think, okay, did I do myself justice or was I worried about what other people think about me? So do you think that came from you growing up and the way you grew up in New York, or did it come from just what you studied in law school?
00:04:56:17 – 00:05:07:06
Stacy Francis
Like where does that courage actually come from for you? Because you’re just really I see that you’re very emphatic about that viewpoint, which I admire, and you won’t back down. And that’s really admirable because a lot of people don’t have that.
00:05:07:18 – 00:05:26:00
Mr Gravante
Well, I think that I mean, part of it comes from being trained as a lawyer or as a lawyer. You’re supposed to be able to take on any case. Well, it doesn’t mean you have to take on any case, but you should be able to really represent both sides of any commercial dispute. You should be able to function both as a prosecutor and as a defense lawyer.
00:05:26:00 – 00:05:45:14
Mr Gravante
Yes. And what we do as lawyers is if we’re doing our job properly, we take the facts, we take the law as it’s presented and do the best case we can. Right. Right. So there are some lawyers who could say that they could never be prosecutors. I could never say. Right. Some lawyers would say they can never be defense lawyers.
00:05:45:17 – 00:06:08:12
Mr Gravante
Right. I can’t say that. Right. I know in many other countries, lawyers are assigned to cases and if there is a criminal case, for example, there will be two lawyers there and one will be maybe handed the defense file and. Oh, wow, prosecution file. Wow. And you do the best with what you whatever file you’re given. That’s writer is we are just lawyers.
00:06:08:13 – 00:06:38:07
Mr Gravante
That’s fine. We are not you know, we are not the clients. We are not we are doing the job that we were trained to do. And I take that very seriously. So if the opinions of others who disagree with either the political affiliation of your client or because they find what your client is accused of to be so repugnant that you ought not to be representing them if that is going to interfere with your ability to do your job, then I think that’s a case you ought not to take on.
00:06:38:08 – 00:06:43:01
Mr Gravante
That’s what I think is lawyers. The way we are trained is to get beyond that.
00:06:43:11 – 00:07:07:04
Stacy Francis
Do you find it a little more difficult these days with the media than it used to be? Because I feel like the media has definitely elevated with regard to race relations and sort of what you’re saying, politicizing things. I think the media speaks differently. They sometimes lean a little more to one side than the other. Do you find anything changing for you when it when it comes to that, or do you just maintain your same position no matter what?
00:07:07:13 – 00:07:18:14
Mr Gravante
I try to maintain my same position, no matter what. But when you’re talking about the media these days. Yeah, I mean, what country we’re living in and what is going on. Yeah. In your mind is largely a function of what network you Rochester.
00:07:18:14 – 00:07:20:17
Stacy Francis
That’s true. It’s true.
00:07:20:17 – 00:07:42:20
Mr Gravante
It’s true that watch MSNBC all day. Yeah. Friends that watch Fox News. Well yes. Yeah. Depending on which network they watch. Yeah. If that’s all they watch. Yes. They could be living in different countries in different times. That’s right. Completely different views as to what’s going on. That’s right. In our country. So I think it’s very important not to be influenced by the media.
00:07:42:20 – 00:08:06:25
Mr Gravante
But at the same time, I like to be informed about what the media is portraying a situation to be. Yeah, so I do when I have the time to to watch cable news. Yeah, that’s what counts. Good for you. I like to see you on MSNBC. Or not. So it seems that people on Fox are saying, yeah, you know, it’s important to appreciate always the other point of view that’s right out of contemplated.
00:08:07:03 – 00:08:29:17
Mr Gravante
And I think anyone who, you know is going to take a position, anyone who is going to, you know, be involved in a dinner conversation. Yes. Urgently. Yes. About a controversial subject. Yeah. Needs to understand that many of these subjects are more complex. Yes. And first meets the eye that’s so smart that put the channels and get a chance to see, you know, whatever viewpoint.
00:08:30:11 – 00:08:47:16
Mr Gravante
That’s right. Image is very. Yes. Yes. And I do think so. I think part of the what you referred to as courage is a function of, you know, being trained as a lawyer. Yes. But I think it’s also I mean, it’s something that comes from being able to make choices without regard to what other people think. That’s a big deal.
00:08:47:16 – 00:08:55:10
Mr Gravante
And that is something that I think I think I have lost with that. And I don’t think it was anything I was trained with in law school. I think it was something that.
00:08:55:10 – 00:08:55:25
Stacy Francis
Was very.
00:08:56:03 – 00:09:20:13
Mr Gravante
Likely ingrained in me by my parents when I was young. Yes. To just pursue my dream, pursue what I wanted to do. And, you know, as people who have followed my career are aware, I started out after law school working for one of the most conservative, sort of the whitest of white shoe law firms in the United States.
00:09:20:13 – 00:09:50:20
Mr Gravante
And one of the best law firms in the United States, where all they represented were really the cream of the crop. Top Fortune 100 clients and banks and financial institutions. And it was, in my view at the time, the best law firm in the United States and was also by far the most conservative. Well, after about four years working there, I made a career move, which many considered me absolutely insane for me.
00:09:50:20 – 00:10:18:21
Mr Gravante
I went to work for a criminal defense lawyer who, although he did a lot of white collar work and he’s recently deceased, he did a lot of work working defense cases for organized crime. Wow. Wow. For drug dealers. Wow. And I learned how to live in the courtroom for and during those two years when I worked there. So I got this amazing experience at this, you know, what I’ll call the whitest of white to law firm at the time.
00:10:18:21 – 00:10:34:21
Mr Gravante
Yes. From 1985 to when I graduated from law school in 1990. And then I went to work for a lawyer who was in court all the time, which is where I learned how to try cases. Yes, working for yes. Our clients were accused of being, you know, major figures in organized crime. Wow.
00:10:35:04 – 00:10:37:02
Stacy Francis
Do you recall why you made that decision?
00:10:37:12 – 00:10:44:09
Mr Gravante
The decision? Because I wanted to learn how to try cases. Wow. But that was a very controversial. Yeah, yeah. Like I’m sure.
00:10:44:09 – 00:10:45:07
Stacy Francis
Your parents were like, what are.
00:10:45:07 – 00:11:01:22
Mr Gravante
You doing? Oh, my, my parents, actually. And they supported you back to my upbringing and the courage, I think, that I derived from them encouraged me to do what I thought was best for my career. Wow. But there were there other colleagues of mine from law school that were friends of mine from Duke University, where I attended college.
00:11:02:07 – 00:11:25:29
Mr Gravante
There were people at my original law firm who were shop, so I would go to work for a lawyer who was doing those kinds of cases. Wow. It was a very controversial career decision. Wow. I think very few people would have made a lot of people question before and it took a lot of courage to make because there were so many people who discouraged me from making that move, but it turned out to be one of the best career decisions.
00:11:25:29 – 00:11:37:29
Mr Gravante
And I think it’s actually the the key decision that resulted in my becoming a lawyer that you are telling me today. Wow, that is incredible. And it was based on a move that was considered insane.
00:11:37:29 – 00:11:44:18
Stacy Francis
But you went with your gut on it. You went when it was like you felt like, you know what, this is what I should do. And you didn’t listen to other people. And that’s a big deal.
00:11:44:18 – 00:12:05:11
Mr Gravante
I felt like I learned a lot at my first law firm, which was a tremendous law firm, about how to be careful as a lawyer, how to write, how to represent clients. Yes, you know, to the best of my ability. But yes, you know, many large corporations and other sort of very upscale kinds of clients who were more involved in commercial disputes than anyone else.
00:12:05:11 – 00:12:23:19
Mr Gravante
Yeah, it was a firm that rarely would have taken on. Yeah. Really unpopular causes. Right. And then just switching full gear to, you know, the other kinds of cases were something that, you know, it was it was just a great move for me, but I had to disregard what others were saying. Yeah. So actually the purge did play into that.
00:12:23:19 – 00:12:36:13
Mr Gravante
Yeah. It resulted in my becoming really a trial lawyer because the thing I learned in the two years working for the criminal defense lawyer that I worked for was I learned how to try cases. Wow. I lived in for a while.
00:12:36:13 – 00:12:52:11
Stacy Francis
And you know what? That encourages me to tell the young people that are watching to try to think about the future. And it’s hard sometimes when you are in your twenties or when you’re young and you just started on a new career to think into the future that way, because we always think about the now and what we’re going through now and and how to solve those problems now.
00:12:52:11 – 00:13:00:10
Stacy Francis
But if you’re thinking into the future and what that could help you with and what you can learn in that situation, it it really could put you on a really great road to success.
00:13:00:10 – 00:13:18:09
Mr Gravante
And that’s that is so true. And I think that that is also that is it comes into play when one is still in school. Yes. When one is considering. What do I want to major in law and want to go to graduate school? Yes. So what graduate school do I want to attend? Yes, I want to get more than one postgraduate degree.
00:13:18:09 – 00:13:37:11
Mr Gravante
Yes. Which I encourage kids when I talk to them really all over the any kids I talk to, including my own, I encourage them. Education, education, education. Yes. Get as many degrees while you’re in school mode as you can. Yes. It’s not that all going to necessarily come into play. I urge kids, go get a law degree, even if I’m interested in practice.
00:13:37:13 – 00:13:48:25
Mr Gravante
Wow. Wow. The training you’re going to get is going to be incredible. Wow. And kids will tell me sometimes, well, no, I’m not interested in law. I’m interested in astronomy or I’m interested in sports or I’m interested in entertainment.
00:13:49:08 – 00:13:55:10
Stacy Francis
But you need law in those notes often in history. It’s I wish I would have done that. It would have helped so much as.
00:13:55:10 – 00:14:16:26
Mr Gravante
Novel Basketball Association. Right. I used to share an office with. He’s a lawyer. First of all, he’s a lawyer. Wow. You go with your general counsel. Wow. Every major company interested in space all become an in-house job working for NASA. Wow. You’re interested in entertainment? You and your team in law? Yeah. Grow in house working for small companies.
00:14:17:01 – 00:14:22:13
Mr Gravante
There is nothing that you cannot do with a law degree in any field because you’re going.
00:14:22:13 – 00:14:24:14
Stacy Francis
To always need to know what that law is about.
00:14:24:14 – 00:14:43:07
Mr Gravante
All areas and you can pursue your dreams. But my point is education and getting as much education as you can. It’s very clear in education mode, in my view, is very important. Well, I love that whether it’s an MBA, a JD, no matter what. But now what’s a JD? JD is a law degree. Okay. An MBA, obviously business.
00:14:43:07 – 00:15:01:28
Mr Gravante
Okay. And I would just urge kids to take the long view and get as much education as you can while you’re in education, because it is sometimes difficult to stop in a career and then go back and go back to school and then reserve through it. So I think I tell kids to take the long view while they’re in school.
00:15:02:00 – 00:15:02:11
Mr Gravante
I like.
00:15:02:11 – 00:15:03:13
Stacy Francis
That term taking the long.
00:15:03:13 – 00:15:17:25
Mr Gravante
View. And then after that, when you get out, you’ve got to make career decisions. You know, it’s it seems like when you when you get out of law school, you’re you know, I was just four years out lost when I made this very controversial career decision. Yeah. And that was the first. And then I worked for the lawyer for two years.
00:15:17:25 – 00:15:30:00
Mr Gravante
So you talking about the first six years of my career? Yeah. Seems like at that point it’s know that’s a big portion of your career. Yeah. But now that I’ve been practicing law for 37 years. Yeah. I look back to those first three years.
00:15:30:00 – 00:15:30:12
Stacy Francis
Right.
00:15:30:12 – 00:15:42:07
Mr Gravante
So I was an infant. Yes, yes. Yes. I did take the long view in terms of the lawyer I wanted to be. Yes. Able to handle complex civil matters as I was trained.
00:15:42:07 – 00:15:44:05
Stacy Francis
And you did it in a genius way.
00:15:44:06 – 00:15:54:19
Mr Gravante
And in the most controversial criminal cases, the ones that I have worked on and, you know, interesting matters, I continue to work on the long view and recognizing that.
00:15:54:20 – 00:15:55:21
Stacy Francis
The longer you are love in.
00:15:55:21 – 00:16:02:21
Mr Gravante
Your twenties and you’re in your early thirties. Yeah, you’re not thinking about waiting to see associates.
00:16:02:21 – 00:16:04:24
Stacy Francis
It’s true. It’s true. It’s true.
00:16:04:24 – 00:16:10:02
Mr Gravante
People are. It’s true. You got a long way to go. Make some decisions and take the long view. Have courage.
00:16:10:09 – 00:16:30:05
Stacy Francis
Have courage. I love it. Okay. We’re going to go to the question. Number two, genius trait number five. Okay. As an attorney who’s achieved so much success, how do you find it difficult to use genius trait number five Honesty in a world full of deception and what seems to be unfair to honest people, how do you stay true to yourself?
00:16:30:13 – 00:16:54:04
Stacy Francis
And so, to be honest and what advice would you give to people who are watching to not operate in fear and to always be honest? I mean, I think, like, unfortunately, some attorneys do have sort of we sort of put this sort of tag on them that are our attorneys honest? Do they operate in honesty? And so I think I would like to know how you operate with number five honesty in your career.
00:16:54:04 – 00:17:17:28
Mr Gravante
I think that honesty and it’s really another way to define a journalist credibility. Yes, that’s true. Are dishonest. Once you are, you lose credibility. You’re done. And that could be in a trial. I mean, a trial is in the end when you get up and give a closing statement. When I look at those jurors, if I at the end of a long trial, do not have credibility with the jury.
00:17:18:03 – 00:17:49:03
Mr Gravante
Yeah, I might as well knock it off. Wow. Closing argument. Wow. I my client is not going to have a chance. Wow. So from the day that we start jury selection to the day that I get up to give it, to give my closing statement, maintaining credibility at all times, not exaggerating, not saying anything that I know, not saying that I can prove anything that ultimately I cannot prove, not saying anything which my adversary in court and I usually have pretty able adversaries are not able to disprove.
00:17:49:04 – 00:18:15:15
Mr Gravante
Yes, those things are very, very important. So you learn about, you know, the importance of honesty and credibility as a trial lawyer all the time. Wow. But even more generally, with colleagues, with your law partners, with adversaries, generally with judges, it takes years and years and years to build up a reputation as a person who is an honest yes.
00:18:16:00 – 00:18:19:07
Mr Gravante
Yes. Years to build up that reputation. That’s right. Is very.
00:18:19:07 – 00:18:20:19
Stacy Francis
And it takes like 5 minutes.
00:18:21:00 – 00:18:43:28
Mr Gravante
It takes. Right. That’s true. It’s true. So you have got to be you’ve got to maintain. Yeah. You all the time. Yeah. Because once you blow it it could take a long time to get it back. To get it back. You ever can. Yes. So it’s true. It is very important, to be honest. And that’s not it. It’s not just being honest as a lawyer with jurors, being honest with your own client.
00:18:43:28 – 00:19:03:02
Mr Gravante
Yes. Yes. I mean, you have to sometimes tell your clients things they don’t want to hear. Right. And I lose a lot of cases because a client will come to me and they will want to handle a case a certain way. And, you know, the client makes a decision. So usually I will be willing to handle it whichever way the client really wants, because ultimately the client directs the lawyer.
00:19:03:08 – 00:19:09:17
Mr Gravante
Right. But sometimes clients don’t want to hire me because I don’t tell them what they. Wow, I don’t want to you and you.
00:19:09:18 – 00:19:10:01
Stacy Francis
Just turn.
00:19:10:01 – 00:19:11:21
Mr Gravante
Down the money, down the like.
00:19:11:21 – 00:19:12:14
Stacy Francis
This is what it is.
00:19:12:14 – 00:19:32:28
Mr Gravante
I love all I can pursue that strategy. I’m telling you in my heart I. I don’t believe that’s the best strategy. Well, you. Yeah, I don’t think you’re going to end up where you think you’re going to end, but I think you’re going to end up a better place if you follow my strategy. Right. There are clients that come in already preprogramed with the notion that they know how this case ought to be handled by.
00:19:32:29 – 00:19:49:12
Mr Gravante
And if I tell them I agree with you, I should handle it exactly that way. Yeah. And I’m dishonest with them. Yes. Then I’m more likely to get hired sometimes than actually giving the client the prospective client quite difficult advice that I don’t see it their way and I would do something differently. So I’ve got to be honest with your clients.
00:19:50:21 – 00:20:09:01
Mr Gravante
You know, in a recent case I had I mean, like, it’s no secret for a criminal defense lawyer you’re being paid. It’s you make a lot more money going to trial and doing it three or four months. Yeah. Than walking into a courtroom and entering a plea of guilty. Yeah. Takes an hour. Right, right, right. Close to three for three months.
00:20:09:01 – 00:20:27:11
Mr Gravante
Right. But that doesn’t mean you advise all your clients to go to trial. Right, because it may be more lucrative for the lawyer. Right. You’ve got to be honest with your client, even if sometimes it means that you know you’re going to make a lot less money. Yeah, your fees are going to be a lot less. Yeah. You got to give clients honesty, I think.
00:20:27:21 – 00:20:49:02
Stacy Francis
I think like in the question I was talking about like fear because I think like even for me as an artist, I find myself sometimes going, okay, well if I’m honest about my age or if I’m honest about this, I’m honest about that, then will they hire me or will I be able to move forward? You know, and I think, like, sometimes people get into the state of fear of because they want to survive, so they get it.
00:20:49:02 – 00:21:07:06
Stacy Francis
So survival mode. So I think that you have to have faith and I think you have to always operate in honesty because like you’re saying in the end, but credibility and for success to really occur that honesty is always going to outweigh anything you can make up in the moment. It’s not going to it’s not going to work.
00:21:07:08 – 00:21:33:04
Mr Gravante
That that is so important. And I think that I mean, for example, I sometimes get offered cases where people will ask about my area, my my expertize in a certain subject matter area. And to be frank, I have no expertize in anything other than being a good lawyer. That’s great. A good litigator. Yeah. I am not an expert in the sense that I work on one kind of case all the time.
00:21:33:09 – 00:21:54:13
Mr Gravante
I’m not a medical malpractise lawyer. Right. Got to read medical files. Right. I am a general litigator and I learn the facts of my cases as they come along. I love it early in my career representing Calvin Klein, I knew nothing about the, you know, the garment business, right? Fashion, fashion, business, industry. Yeah. And I learned what I needed to learn.
00:21:54:13 – 00:22:12:22
Mr Gravante
Yeah. I tell clients that all the time when they come in and they ask me, for example, cryptocurrency. I had a client three or four weeks old. My friend asked me about my expertize in cryptocurrency. Yeah, because there was a cryptocurrency situation, potential litigation. They were talking to me about possibly representing me and I was honest with them.
00:22:12:22 – 00:22:30:07
Mr Gravante
No, I knew that that might cause them to say, Well, thank you very much. It was nice meeting you. Yeah, yeah. And I said to them, I know absolutely nothing. Good job. Crypto currency. Just like I knew absolutely nothing about so many of the other areas. Yeah, but you learned about learning to study, to be a litigator. Wow.
00:22:30:08 – 00:22:56:11
Mr Gravante
When I do great learn about it. And I assured, you know, these prospective clients that notwithstanding my ignorance about cryptocurrency, I would, as I have always done, I learn what I need to learn in order to get the job now. And you don’t need to become an expert in every Yeah right. Class, but you can’t have the fear of not being honest with people about the fact that, you know, cryptocurrency.
00:22:56:25 – 00:23:12:10
Mr Gravante
I don’t know, but I don’t about it. I’ve seen it good about it. There are other lawyers at my firm who are experts in it. Yes, but I know very little about it or anything about it. Good for you. But that’s very admirable to overcome the fear and you’ve got to be honest with people. I love is. If not, they’ll see through it pretty quickly.
00:23:12:10 – 00:23:13:05
Mr Gravante
If they’re sharp.
00:23:13:05 – 00:23:28:09
Stacy Francis
That’s true. That’s very, very true. Okay. We’re going to get to question number three now, which, by the way, I’m loving these answers. Thank you so much. We cases that may be difficult where you are fighting with a great desire, of course, to win for your clients. How do you operate? And genius trait number six Optimism.
00:23:28:28 – 00:23:52:16
Mr Gravante
Optimism. Yeah, I will tell you this. I am I was born an optimistic. Okay. And I could show you if I if I were right now at my weekend home in Pennsylvania, I could pull out my high school yearbook and I could show you when people are very class this best that everything else. Yeah I was actually voted class optimist no way.
00:23:52:16 – 00:23:53:16
Stacy Francis
I love that.
00:23:53:16 – 00:23:56:04
Mr Gravante
And I don’t know why my fellow classmates.
00:23:56:14 – 00:23:58:17
Stacy Francis
What is that true? Who really? Wow that’s.
00:23:58:17 – 00:24:20:05
Mr Gravante
Amazing. I love that you after this interview, it’s like a picture of my high school yearbook. This that is genius because I have always been an optimistic person. Wow. So that for some reason has always come naturally. Yes. And I think you’ve got to make the best of a situation. Yes. No matter what it is. Yes. You understand, you’ve got to be a realist.
00:24:20:05 – 00:24:21:21
Mr Gravante
But yes, you know, in life.
00:24:21:21 – 00:24:23:29
Stacy Francis
Why don’t you define for our audience optimism?
00:24:25:05 – 00:24:48:26
Mr Gravante
What optimism is that? There are a number of ways that different situations can turn out. You can’t dwell on all of the negative turns that something could take. I think you’ve got to focus on the positive and you’ve got to muster your energy. You’re trying to achieve through, you know, hard work, dedication, persistence, trying to achieve that, you know, best result possible.
00:24:48:27 – 00:25:14:13
Mr Gravante
Yes. And you’ve got to be prepared at the same time that things always don’t play out as planned. Right. But sometimes things don’t go well. So I tell kids, whether they’re applying to colleges, they’re applying here, they’re applying for jobs. Take a chance to apply. Go do something and be optimistic. You know, I tell kids sometimes who are desperate to get their foot in the door in a certain industry, but they know there’s no chance of them getting a paying job in the first instance.
00:25:14:20 – 00:25:32:14
Mr Gravante
If you can afford it and if you can do it or do an unpaid internship work hard, get to meet people. Yes, network with in there. And if people like you and they see you’re a hard worker. Yeah. Watch how quickly that will develop in your job. Be optimistic. Yes. About the opportunities that taking chances are going to yield for you.
00:25:32:14 – 00:25:33:06
Mr Gravante
Well, that’s definitely.
00:25:33:06 – 00:25:48:19
Stacy Francis
Genius to do that. Now, how does that apply to your clients? And so you have a client that comes in that’s really will be down and out about the case they’re working on with you. And they feel like there’s no way they’re going to win. And they feel sad all the time and they just really, really sort of just melancholy about the situation.
00:25:48:19 – 00:25:51:17
Stacy Francis
How do you encourage your clients to use the administration number?
00:25:51:19 – 00:26:16:25
Mr Gravante
Well, you got you got tension now between your honesty. Yeah, right. Like, well, you might be right. You’re very good reason for being pessimistic and melancholy. Yeah. Legal situation. Yeah. And I have to remind them that, you know, they may have it exactly right. Yeah. On the other hand, once we choose to go down a path, for example, let’s assume there’s a client that I’ve advised not to go to trial that wants to go to trial.
00:26:16:27 – 00:26:37:16
Mr Gravante
Yeah, I think the client would be better off working out some sort of an alternative disposition of his or her case or company’s case. Yeah, but they want to go to trial. At that point, all you focus on is winning the trial, and that’s what we’re going to win this trial. Now, you put out of your head the fact you advise the client not to go to trial.
00:26:37:16 – 00:26:52:04
Mr Gravante
Yeah, it’s. What are we going to do every day, right? We’re going to work. You know, we’re going to work our butts off and a day out to win this trial. That’s right. Because that’s the path we’ve gone down. We’re not going to look they’re not going to look at the client and say, you know, if things start going poorly at trial.
00:26:52:05 – 00:27:27:22
Mr Gravante
Yes, we’re going to say, I told you so. Yeah. That’s not you know, it’s. Yeah. And speed ahead. Yes. Word victory. I love it. That’s what you’ve got to do. That’s very optimistic that you’re going to win. Yes. And fortunately for me in my career, I’ve had tremendous success with juries getting up and, you know, saying the right thing, whether I’m as a criminal defense lawyer, getting up and saying not guilty or as a civil lawyer getting up and either, you know, finding my clients not liable if they’re being sued for something or finding, you know, entities that I am suing on behalf of others liable in civil cases.
00:27:27:22 – 00:27:28:04
Mr Gravante
Yes.
00:27:28:04 – 00:27:47:15
Stacy Francis
So and I would think that this client you have now that used to work for President Trump, I would think that he must be a pretty optimistic person because, I mean, he’s he’s under fire. And, you know, he’s just operating in his honesty and his integrity and he’s being optimistic because he’s not going to allow the media or what people think about President Trump to come in to affect him.
00:27:47:15 – 00:27:49:21
Stacy Francis
Do you find that with him the case or not?
00:27:49:28 – 00:28:10:11
Mr Gravante
That’s definitely the case. In his case, he’s a 75 year old man who’s worked hard his entire life. And I think in the end, he had to make some very difficult decisions about how he was going to handle his case. Yes. And, you know, look, he had a duty, you know, obviously, to people he has worked for who have been loyal to him for years.
00:28:10:11 – 00:28:14:27
Mr Gravante
And, yes, treat them well. But he also has a wife. He has children. He has grandchildren that yeah.
00:28:14:29 – 00:28:15:25
Stacy Francis
He’s a real person.
00:28:16:08 – 00:28:27:16
Mr Gravante
I mean, he’s right by himself. That’s right. So, I mean, I think that people have to really do what’s best for themselves in certain situations and not be affected by what others think. That’s right. It goes back to courage.
00:28:27:16 – 00:28:54:18
Stacy Francis
That’s right. This is going so well. I’m enjoying this so much. I have to say, I’m I’m learning a lot as well. Okay. We’re going to go to question number four. And obviously, as a lawyer, this applies to you very much. And I would say your ability to judge, okay, it’s a big one. I mean, when you’re taking on a client and he confesses his innocence or when he’s saying that this is the truth, how are you able to use a genius trait number seven ability to judge when signing on a new case?
00:28:55:12 – 00:29:18:20
Mr Gravante
That’s difficult only because I am someone who does form snap impressions about people. Okay. And I can form judgments immediately with respect to the truth. Yeah. Client is lying you in the non law aspects of my life. Friends that I meet, whether these are genuine people or whether these are people that you know, you’ve got to keep your eye on them.
00:29:18:21 – 00:29:41:12
Mr Gravante
Yeah. I squirm, snap judgments. But what I, I think as you grow older, the thing that you learn is that first impressions are not always correct. And there are times where, although I do find judgments immediately about certain things and I trust my judgment because it usually is on the mark, but it isn’t always on the mark. Okay, then you’ve got to be willing in life to decide.
00:29:41:26 – 00:29:59:21
Mr Gravante
Just admit sometimes in someone who you thought was the most honest client in the world has come in and completely pulled the wool over mine. Oh no. I’ve got to be willing to accept the fact that God is so long for the right. Right. I have the opposite point of view. Someone who has walked in the room and I said, This person is such a liar.
00:29:59:21 – 00:30:04:07
Mr Gravante
A woman is lying. Right? Then I’ve come to realize once.
00:30:04:25 – 00:30:05:01
Stacy Francis
They were.
00:30:05:01 – 00:30:36:09
Mr Gravante
True that there was some wow wow person. I thought them wow originally. So I think being open minded, I mean, there’s nothing wrong with using your judgment. His judgment is so important. It is, you know, and that’s what we do as lawyers. I mean, if it were easy to make legal decisions because you always did something the same way in every case, for example, sometimes you have cases where a client has the option to testify before a grand jury before he or she is indicted.
00:30:36:22 – 00:30:57:17
Mr Gravante
And I’ve had clients where I have some lawyers will never advise a client to testify before a grand jury. There are other words that seem like, you know, they often do when it comes to asserting the Fifth Amendment. There are some criminal defense lawyers who believe that they any time you can assert the Fifth Amendment, it’s better to do so.
00:30:57:18 – 00:31:17:06
Mr Gravante
Tell the audience what the Fifth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment is a constitutional right not to incriminate yourself by giving testimony that’s being compelled from you. So you have a right in certain proceedings to assert the Fifth Amendment and say, I do not want to testify on the grounds that there is a tendency for my answers to possibly incriminate me.
00:31:17:07 – 00:31:43:18
Mr Gravante
Right now, the Fifth Amendment is for the innocent as well as for people who are guilty. So I don’t want anyone to be under the mistaken view that the Fifth Amendment is only asserted by people who are guilty because the Supreme Court has expressly held that it is just as much a valuable protection for the innocent. But in the media, in the press, with colleagues asserting the Fifth Amendment is often perceived be it’s true.
00:31:44:09 – 00:32:03:20
Mr Gravante
But my my point is that if I were a computer and in the answer were always to put a client into the grand jury when they had an interesting story to tell. Or the answer was always to tell a client to assert the Fifth Amendment in any situation where they might be in criminal jeopardy. And we might as well just have computers.
00:32:03:28 – 00:32:20:12
Mr Gravante
Right, right, right. Judgment in this robot. So I’ve got to look at the person. Yeah, I’ve got to listen to the person. Yeah, I’ve got to look at the composition of the grand jury. Yeah. Where are we? What venue are we in? Are we in Manhattan or are we in, you know, some of, you know, small town in Texas.
00:32:20:14 – 00:32:33:09
Mr Gravante
Yeah. There’s a difference between how my client is going to be judged. Wow. There’s a difference in the advice in my care. There’s a difference based on the client, how the flower comes off as the client come off as arrogant. Is the client from office sincere and genuine? Wow.
00:32:33:09 – 00:32:35:02
Stacy Francis
So just many different variables.
00:32:35:02 – 00:32:44:11
Mr Gravante
There are very different variables. And in the end the advice I give is based on judgment. So judgment is important and it’s something that, you know.
00:32:44:19 – 00:33:05:03
Stacy Francis
And I love that the ability to judge what you sound like a genius at it. Good job. Okay, this one. I am so interested in asking you and I think a lot of people in the audience will be as well, because this is a big one. Okay. Question number five. Trait number nine is willingness to take chances. All right.
00:33:05:03 – 00:33:29:00
Stacy Francis
So you just signed on another very controversial client by the name of Kanye West. And I think in this case, we have to say that you are definitely a genius and operating with willingness to take chances has come into play. Okay. So where tell us. I mean, just tell us about that. Like, how are you so confident shaking hands with Kanye West?
00:33:29:00 – 00:33:47:13
Stacy Francis
We know that he’s one of the most controversial celebrities in the world, but also very loved by many. I mean, he is very love. I mean, he’s controversial, but let’s face it, he’s his music is amazing. He’s he very fashion forward ideas. And right now he’s in a big controversy with Gap, I think. And you’re his lawyer on that.
00:33:47:13 – 00:33:52:14
Stacy Francis
So tell us about that. Why did you why you’re operating and willing to take chances here? Well.
00:33:53:15 – 00:34:02:14
Mr Gravante
I think that, again, I mean, I could find Ye, Ye is his new name. Oh, right. His legal name. Okay.
00:34:02:15 – 00:34:03:27
Stacy Francis
Yeah, it’s his legal name now.
00:34:04:02 – 00:34:05:23
Mr Gravante
Yes, his legal name is now Ye
00:34:05:25 – 00:34:09:09
Stacy Francis
Oh, wow. He changed it from Kanye to Ye…
00:34:09:09 – 00:34:25:06
Mr Gravante
On my retainer agreement. When I first sent it out to him, I was told by his acting counsel that I had to change the name on the retainer to take off Kanye West. And you do? Wow, dear. Ye. Wow. And that is just why he officially changed. Legally changed.
00:34:25:08 – 00:34:31:02
Stacy Francis
He’s legally changed his name and is breaking here right here on my channel in case you didn’t know it.
00:34:31:03 – 00:34:46:06
Mr Gravante
But if you want to talk about traits of genius. Yes, Ye is a Genius. Yeah, I have. I know I knew about synergies. I knew about some of his background. I recently watched a Netflix series. Yes. Background. Yes. A lot more about him. Yes.
00:34:46:14 – 00:34:47:23
Stacy Francis
Now, I’m going to tell you something.
00:34:47:23 – 00:34:50:20
Mr Gravante
I watched that series, tried to interview him because he is a genius.
00:34:50:20 – 00:35:07:11
Stacy Francis
I would love to interview him. Maybe you could work it out for me. I watch that Netflix series and that’s when I totally fell in love with him as an artist. Like I, I’ve watched him with his relationship with his mom, and I did when I was younger. I did see get a chance to see him live in person at a club in New York City.
00:35:07:11 – 00:35:35:24
Stacy Francis
And I just I thought he was always genius and pardon the pun, this name of the Netflix series Genius. Right. And so I but he has come under fire a lot. He a lot of people don’t understand his viewpoint and how he’s so successful. Oh, he he definitely works in genius, right? I mean, I would love to sit and ask him about his courage level, you know, but for you and your willingness to take chances, I guess you watch the Netflix series and you, like us, fell in love with him.
00:35:35:24 – 00:35:37:26
Stacy Francis
And so you’re just like, okay, let’s go.
00:35:38:04 – 00:35:41:08
Mr Gravante
Oh, I watched the Netflix series actually after I started representing.
00:35:41:08 – 00:35:44:14
Stacy Francis
Okay, so why don’t you why did you why did you sign him then? Why?
00:35:45:01 – 00:35:56:05
Mr Gravante
I mean, he was referred to me when I understood the nature of the commercial disputes because it’s not nothing to do with the criminal law. This is completely business issues that I’m representing.
00:35:56:15 – 00:35:58:13
Stacy Francis
Are you able to tell us anything about that case?
00:35:58:14 – 00:36:02:29
Mr Gravante
No, not much, other than I think that if one looks at his entire Instagram, yeah.
00:36:02:29 – 00:36:03:20
Stacy Francis
You’ll see more and.
00:36:04:17 – 00:36:25:25
Mr Gravante
More. He has differences of opinion with the way his merchandise ought to be marketed and sold. And yeah, so there’s a lot more of it that should be flying off the shelves. If it were handled better. And I think he’s probably right about that. Okay. I know he’s right about that. Okay. But I didn’t even think twice about representing him again, he’s controversial.
00:36:26:13 – 00:36:28:18
Mr Gravante
But, you know, so as you.
00:36:28:18 – 00:36:31:17
Stacy Francis
See and I believe an injustice there you see an injustice.
00:36:31:17 – 00:36:53:10
Mr Gravante
There. Look, I see a client who believes that, you know, their rights are not being fully respected under contractual agreements. And I’m going to pursue the remedies that are available under the law to try to help them make sure that their contractual rights are enforced. So, I mean, he’s a controversial figure. Yes. Much like, you know, our former president, Donald Trump.
00:36:53:10 – 00:37:16:29
Mr Gravante
That’s right. But that doesn’t dissuade me. That doesn’t deter me in any way from taking on his client. His legal issues are straightforward. I mean, there are licensing contracts that have to be interpreted. And we have to figure out, you know, who is not living up to their end of the bargain, so to speak. Right. That’s what we do as lawyers and the people with whom he’s entered into licensing agreements are not doing what they ought to be doing.
00:37:16:29 – 00:37:26:18
Mr Gravante
Well, then there are legal remedies. Yes. Yeah. But the fact that he’s controversial and the fact that, you know, he ran for president and ran for president again. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:26:21 – 00:37:28:01
Stacy Francis
I wouldn’t be surprised that.
00:37:28:12 – 00:37:46:17
Mr Gravante
You know, it doesn’t deter me at all. I actually that’s part of the fun of practicing law on challenging cases. Taking on interesting clients. Yeah. Clients that, you know, people at cocktail parties or at dinner, you know, like to bring up and say, what’s it like? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On that case, I.
00:37:46:17 – 00:38:11:27
Stacy Francis
See the running theme through your through you talking to us in this interview. The running theme is definitely ability to look for yourself, your ability to assess for yourself without the influence of so many people around you, without the influence of the media, without you know, without feeling any sense of fear, you have a strong ability to be able to observe and look for yourself at the situation and look at the facts.
00:38:12:01 – 00:38:22:14
Mr Gravante
That is true. I mean, look, I’m very independent that you make my own situations. I’m with a larger law firm. So obviously sometimes the views of my partners come in through you, of course, and I respect the, you know, my partner.
00:38:22:14 – 00:38:25:00
Stacy Francis
But I’m sure they respect your decisions because of your success.
00:38:25:04 – 00:38:43:26
Mr Gravante
We make a collective decision. Yes, we are partners. Yes, there are law partners and times, you know, we have to make the decisions that are in the best interests of the firm. Yes. Even if I might do something differently. But yes. So I take their views into account. But I also I mean, I am very independent. But there are four people whose views I really do take into account very seriously.
00:38:44:03 – 00:39:02:23
Mr Gravante
My wife and my three boys. Right. I’ve got you know, I’ve been going on 30 years, my 30th year anniversary. Congratulations. That’s amazing. I got three boys are twins who are 20 and a boy who’s 17. Wow. And I like bouncing things off them. Yeah, it is amazing how many things they know. Yes, that I know. Absolutely nothing.
00:39:02:26 – 00:39:10:04
Stacy Francis
I have an 11 year old. I have to say the same thing for me. I just ask a question sometimes and and I’m like, okay, well, you’re very smart.
00:39:10:08 – 00:39:11:04
Mr Gravante
Kids have insight.
00:39:11:04 – 00:39:12:01
Stacy Francis
To different things.
00:39:12:01 – 00:39:30:29
Mr Gravante
Social media. Yeah, I know a very little bit about very little about social media and just getting the views of my wife, getting the views of my kids that really does influence me a lot more than what my friends are thinking or what my former law school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or what others that, you know, friends with whom I socialize with.
00:39:31:00 – 00:39:48:14
Mr Gravante
Yeah, I do take the views of my wife and kids. Yeah. And that’s few. And in the end, I make my own decisions. Yeah. Not everybody agrees with every decision I make. Yeah. It’s not like every decision I’ve made with respect to what clients to take on, what case to take on. Yeah, I’ve been correct, but you know, you don’t look back, right?
00:39:48:15 – 00:40:05:04
Mr Gravante
You make a decision, you move forward. That’s right. And it’s just like with career choices. Yeah, there’s a fork in the road. Yeah. You got to go one way or the other. Yeah. And you never know. Where have you gone in that other direction? What would a permanent ranking you, you know, you took the other direction. Yeah. But you can’t look that.
00:40:05:05 – 00:40:13:23
Mr Gravante
That’s right forward. That’s right. For the next fork in the road. Yeah. Use your judgment and have the courage to make the right decision and use your genius trait. Right.
00:40:15:00 – 00:40:35:02
Stacy Francis
Exactly. That is incredible. I love that and I love that you you know, I do admire. Is that his new name? Okay. Yeah. Now, the court the last place I want to ask before we go to the sixth question in the interview is, do you think he changed his name? Like, remember when Prince changed his name? Remember that he changed his name to the of Prince.
00:40:35:02 – 00:40:40:07
Mr Gravante
You’ve got Madonna. You’ve got people that have one word names. Yeah. I don’t know why you changed.
00:40:40:07 – 00:40:53:20
Stacy Francis
Not enough. It was like like, for example, Prince had changed his name, I believe, because he was in a deal with Warner Brothers and he had to change his name in order to sort of change the legality of his contract or something. I don’t know if if Khanya was doing that. You don’t know him?
00:40:53:20 – 00:41:03:13
Mr Gravante
Absolutely not. Okay. One so change of name. That’s why I told you when I said I have always known him. Is Kanye West.
00:41:03:14 – 00:41:22:19
Stacy Francis
Okay? I love it. Well, hopefully I’ll get an interview with him and I can ask him about it. Okay. So I’m thoroughly enjoying this interview. I’m learning so much and I’m just being so encouraged to work, work in my own genius traits even better. So our last question is genius trait number 12, persuasion is there course in law school.
00:41:22:19 – 00:41:41:27
Stacy Francis
First of all, on persuasion, because I just feel like lawyers are so persuasive. You know, it takes a genius, obviously, to be a lawyer, let’s face it. Okay. So without giving away too many your secrets, how would you advise our viewers to operate in their careers in order to be successful using genius trait number 12 persuasion? Oh.
00:41:42:22 – 00:42:01:09
Mr Gravante
I don’t think there is anything that is exclusive to the legal profession in terms of persuasion. We try to persuade our kids to do that, which we think is best for them. That’s to try to persuade our friends that our views on different controversial issues are correct. Just as lawyers try to persuade judges and juries that our clients are in the right rather than wrong.
00:42:01:12 – 00:42:26:17
Mr Gravante
Yes. And I think, again, going back to one of your you called it honesty, and I said honesty is tantamount to credibility. Yes. I mean, the same things. Maintaining credibility. Yes. I saying things that always make sense, saying things that are accurate and never misrepresenting the facts is a very important part of persuasion. And then you want to emphasize emphasize the your strong points that you want to de-emphasize the weaker points, but you can’t ignore the the weaker points.
00:42:26:25 – 00:42:55:04
Mr Gravante
You know, when people argue about things, there’s usually not one right or wrong answer. There may be one answer that’s more right than another answer, but there’s always a counter veiling point of view. Otherwise you wouldn’t be having an argument. You’re sitting there with someone. Yes, completely. Right. So you’ve got people, smart people that have different views. And there are you’ve got to remember, you want to emphasize the facts.
00:42:55:04 – 00:43:13:17
Mr Gravante
If you’re trying to persuade someone that are your most persuasive facts. Yes. You want to try to spend little time discussing the facts that counter your view, but you also need to be ready to have an answer and to explain away the facts that do not support your view. And that’s one of the things that we are trained to do in law school.
00:43:13:25 – 00:43:28:15
Mr Gravante
I mean, you’ve got to be prepared. And when I go into an oral argument, I will tell the lawyers that I’m working with who are not as close to the case as I am. I want you to make leave. You’re going to be the judge. You’re not going to be going to spend three or 4 hours reading these briefs.
00:43:28:18 – 00:43:43:07
Mr Gravante
Right. And you’re going to come in for oral argument. Yes. And you’re not going to know the case as thoroughly as I do. I want you to come up with the most difficult questions that I am going to be asked. Yes, really hard questions. Yes. The weakest part of my case. Yes. And tell me what you think the best answers are.
00:43:43:13 – 00:44:02:13
Mr Gravante
And then because I’ve got to be prepared for respond to the most difficult questions. Yes, yes. Yes. And I think in terms of persuading people, you need to be willing in advance to understand the opposite point of view, your point of view that you want to take. And you’ve got to be willing to repeat the arguments they’re going to make.
00:44:02:13 – 00:44:22:21
Mr Gravante
Yes. And we weren’t ready to counter with why something that, you know, you anticipate they’re going to argue about, why their position is right and mine is wrong. Yes. Why? I think they’re putting too much weight on it or why it’s not correct. You got to respect other people’s views. That’s right. I can’t you cannot dismiss the views of people just because they disagree with you.
00:44:23:02 – 00:44:36:09
Mr Gravante
You really want to be persuasive and you want to keep credibility. Yes. You need to you know, you need to really emphasize and you need to treat people with different views respectfully. Yes. And really try to point out what the flaws in their thinking are.
00:44:36:14 – 00:44:56:28
Stacy Francis
I love that answer. That was beautiful. Okay. So before we finish off, because I’m an artist and I’m just so curious to know about you and have you work with any artistry inside your career as a lawyer, how do you apply anything from the art field, whether it’s whatever, like how do you apply anything in the courtroom or in your life using art?
00:44:58:05 – 00:45:20:28
Mr Gravante
I have had some art cases, but I am not an artist. I am not someone who is you know, I’m not going to paint anything at all about anything. I’m not an artist. Okay. But I think that, you know, as a trial lawyer, much like the producer director, somebody who puts on a Broadway show. Yes. Okay. Yes. Putting together a team of people that work together.
00:45:20:28 – 00:45:25:28
Mr Gravante
Yes. To pull off a show. Because the show isn’t just the actors on the stage. Yes. It’s not just me getting up.
00:45:25:28 – 00:45:26:27
Stacy Francis
It’s a presentation.
00:45:26:27 – 00:45:43:07
Mr Gravante
And giving the notes. It’s the people behind the scenes. Wow. You have to have. Okay, you walk into Broadway and you watch a beautiful. Oh, that’s that’s there are the stagehands. And back there, the people doing the makeup, they’re people doing the lights. That’s right. They’re the people who wrote the play. Yeah, the people doing the music. The orchestra.
00:45:43:07 – 00:45:48:10
Mr Gravante
Yes. In order for a Broadway show to come together and to be a piece of, you know.
00:45:48:10 – 00:45:51:07
Stacy Francis
Yeah, I know work. I worked for six years for the way.
00:45:51:07 – 00:46:09:22
Mr Gravante
But it’s a team of people. Some of whom you never see people. That’s right. And that’s what doing a trial is like. Wow. I may get all the attention because I’m the one getting up, giving the opening statement. Wow. I’m doing the cross-examination of the important witness. Yes, I’m getting up and giving the closing statement. Yes. And at the end of the day, when the press wants to interview me about the case.
00:46:09:22 – 00:46:26:22
Mr Gravante
Yes, I’m know I’m giving the interview. Right. But I have other lawyers on the team, some of whom are in court and some of whom are not in court or preparing briefs that have to go in to the judge. Right. I have people working on graphics. Wow. People behind the scenes. Every aspect of trying a case. You need people who know the law.
00:46:26:28 – 00:46:30:20
Mr Gravante
You need people who are great writers. Wow. Wow. Graphics.
00:46:30:29 – 00:46:43:19
Stacy Francis
I don’t think any of us really thought about that. Right. We just sort of think, okay, this is the trial. I tried, you know, as you know, the very famous trial that was in very public, obviously was Amber Heard in Johnny Depp case. And imagine all the people involved in that production.
00:46:44:29 – 00:47:04:10
Mr Gravante
And know people involved in a complex trial. Yeah, you go back sometimes. I mean, we’ll usually take out, you know, a two or three large conference rooms at the hotel where we set up works when you go to trial. Yeah, because people work throughout the night, you can sometimes have a case of no trial. It’s going to last one or two weeks.
00:47:04:10 – 00:47:21:05
Mr Gravante
Yeah. And there could be hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars at stake. Wow. You’ve got to be able to know. A witness just gave an answer. Yeah. On day one. Yeah. You want to be able to demonstrate that that answer was not honest. When you go back into court on a date, you got to have people willing to go through the documents.
00:47:21:05 – 00:47:36:13
Mr Gravante
Yes, I know how to do the searches on the emails. Yeah. Pull up all the documents. Wow, you. Oh, my goodness. Then if we get evidence that, you know, is helpful, we need to get it into a written brief so somebody hand that to the judge, you know, first thing in the morning and we can have somebody come into court to argue the law.
00:47:36:14 – 00:47:44:17
Stacy Francis
Think about all the elements of, I mean, these 24 traits of genius, but think about all the traits of genius that go through all that process. You just like it. It’s just so much.
00:47:44:17 – 00:48:03:28
Mr Gravante
And there’s a lot of logistics. Wow. Opening a Broadway show. That’s right. Hotel rooms need to make sure that people are working throughout the day and they needed props. Wow. Wow, wow. It’s really it’s a team effort. There’s a lot more that makes a sense. And I think putting together a trial team and actually running a trial. Yeah.
00:48:03:28 – 00:48:08:23
Mr Gravante
Is that. That’s the most analogous thing. Yeah. Yeah. Putting on a Broadway show.
00:48:08:23 – 00:48:32:22
Stacy Francis
Wow, that’s pretty incredible. I never thought of it that way. Well, I’m so honored to have done this interview with you. You’re pretty genius. And you set a great example for people watching to operate in your creative genius. And this is why I’m doing this series, because I really want to encourage young people to really, really focus on yourselves right now and present time, but also think about the future and operating in your genius will help you create such a bright future for yourself.
00:48:32:25 – 00:48:51:00
Stacy Francis
Nicholas, thank you so much for doing this with me. This is just been so enlightening and so amazing and so inspiring for me and I hope it has done the same for you. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please, please, please share this video with as many people as you can. I’m going to put down any information below how to reach him if you need him, because he’s an amazing lawyer.
00:48:51:00 – 00:49:05:20
Stacy Francis
And if you need help, he’s definitely here to help you. So thank you so much for watching and thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much.